Beli Chiron Fz 12 bekas (93)

Kondisi: bekas, Technical Details: X-travel: approx. 1000 mm y-travel: 400 mm z-travel: 420 mm Control: Siemens Sinumerik 805/810 Thread cutting up to max.: M 22 Drilling capacity in St 60 - solid drilling: 25 mm Milling area: Performance in St 60: 150 mm Saw stroke: approx. 55 mm Speed range - stepless: 20-6000 rpm Operating hours (manual): 26,180 h Tool turret: 12 positions Tool holder: SK 40 Kedpfx Aeu Idnmeahsnf Total connected load: 18 kVA Machine weight approx.: 5.0 t Machine dimensions LxWxH: 2.9x2.5x2.8 m Transport dimensions (machine): 2.4x2.6x2.75 m Equipment: - Special equipment/fixture (modular clamping system) for milling profile materials, including automatic cut-to-length device for workpieces using a circular saw module (non-functional) - Horizontal workpiece clamping (force-fit) with vise clamping system and parallel strips (currently approx. 80 mm) - Tool changer type: Chiron basket tool changer - Mechanical tool clamping, clamping force 5000N - Chip conveyor, make: Knoll - Loading and unloading system: FMB LM RP 3000 The machine is not operational. Sale at clearance price only.

Kondisi: baik (bekas), chiron-fz-08-ks-magnum Knjdpfexx U Nzjx Aahsf

Kondisi: baik (bekas), Tahun pembuatan: 2001, 10614 Kjdpfx Aexvw Sajahsnf

Kondisi: perlu perbaikan (bekas), Tahun pembuatan: 2007, Fungsionalitas: tidak berfungsi, nomor mesin/kendaraan: 191-89, Caracteristici tehnice: # Spațiu de prelucrare: X 550 mm; Y 400 mm; Z 360 mm # Descrierea axelor: 3 axe liniare (X, Y, Z) + 1 axă de rotație masă A și 2 axe de rotație B cu cap divizor indexabil, cu sistem de măsurare directă unghiulară, cu număr de rotații 50 minˉ¹, precizie +/- 5" # Axă A pivotare: +/-110˚ # Dimensiune maximă piesă prindere / piesă: Ø 247 x 830 mm; greutate maximă 360 Kg # Viteză rapidă: X/Y/Z 40/40/40 m/min # Distanță între capete divizoare B1/B2: 250 mm # Turație arbore principal: 1 - 10.000 rpm # Conexiune arbore principal: DIN69893-HSK-A63 (cu răcire internă) # Schimbător automat scule: 1x48 scule / timp mediu de schimbare sculă-sculă 2,5 sec # Scule: diam. max 82 mm / lungime max 250 mm / 5 kg Conexiune electrică: # Tensiune: 3x400V/50Hz Ksdpfsxxi Rmsx Aahonf # Putere instalată: aprox. 45 kVA / 80A Dimensiuni # Spațiu de instalare: aprox. 4,4 x 2,3 x 3,1 m # Greutate: aprox. 8.500 kg Echipament inclus: # CNC: Siemens 840D PowerLine # Extractor rumeguș: Spring Knoll # Sistem răcire ulei # Sistem filtrare ulei max 80 Bar: Knoll HL 450/1200 # Sistem răcire arbore, ghidaje și dulap electric # 2 sisteme de ungere cu ulei # Sistem absorbție/recuperare vapori de ulei: LTA # Sistem antiincendiu: Kraft & Bauer # Detectare prezență piesă P/Y: cu detectori aer, presiune scăzută # Control în proces: Marposs T25 # Sistem detectare prezență portsculă în arborele principal # Documentație: incompletă Stare utilaj: NU FUNCȚIONEAZĂ # Motor unitate hidraulică ars

Kondisi: bekas, Tahun pembuatan: 2010, Palettes: 2 Kodpfx Aeqn A Rksahenf Number of axes: 4 pcs. Tool holder: HSK 63 Tool stations: 60 Weight: 9,600 kg Spindle speed: 18,000 rpm Coolant filtration system: Yes Chip conveyor: Yes

Kondisi: sangat baik (bekas), Tahun pembuatan: 2002, CHIRON FZ 15S dengan 4 sumbu dalam Kondisi Sempurna Kedjrgqu Hspfx Aahonf Mesin dapat diperiksa setiap saat dalam keadaan menyala

Kondisi: baik (bekas), Tahun pembuatan: 1999, jarak pergerakan sumbu X: 2.600 mm, jarak lintasan sumbu Y: 520 mm, jarak gerak sumbu Z: 630 mm, Perlengkapan: konveyor serpihan, Long-bed pendulum machining Control: 3-axis CNC path control Siemens 840 D (E305-1) TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS Working area X-axis 2600 mm Y-axis 520 mm Z-axis 630 mm Pendulum operation 2 x 860 mm Clamping table surface 3440 x 570 mm Automatic tool changer Number of tools 40 Tool holder (DIN 69871) SK 40 Tool change time 2.0 sec Max. drive power 18.5 kW Speed range up to 10500 rpm EQUIPMENT/ACCESSORIES  Automatic tool changer ATC 40  Long part machining/pendulum machining (center dividing wall missing)  Splash guard enclosure with electrically interlocked sliding doors including machine light  Coolant system with high-pressure pump and paper band filter Tank capacity 500 l, N-pump 200 l/min at 1.5 bar HP-pump 50 l/min at 20 bar, incl. dual switching filter  ICS internal coolant supply through the spindle  Chip conveyor with discharge height 1050 mm  Rinse gun  1 NC rotary table with power chuck  1 hydraulic tailstock  1 clamping bridge  Electronic handwheel  Leveling elements Kedpfoxwwc Uox Aahonf  Documentation

Kondisi: baik (bekas), Tahun pembuatan: 1999, Offered is a used CNC milling machine CHIRON FZ 22 S high speed with Siemens SINUMERIK 840D control system. The machine is already dismantled and ready for loading. Manufacturer: CHIRON - Werke 78532 Tuttlingen Model: FZ 22 S high speed Machine No.: 497-55 Chip conveyor: Knoll 340 K-1/500 Spindle hours: 2,355 h Year of manufacture: 1999 Weight: 6,500 kg Inspection report from 2021 is available X-axis travel: 750 mm Y-axis travel: 520 mm Z-axis travel: 630 mm Spindle taper: SK 40 CNC control: Siemens SINUMERIK 840D Table size: 1,150 x 570 mm Max. table load: 1,200 kg Automatic tool changer: 20 positions Coolant system Operating voltage: 400 V Total power requirement: 32 kVA Space requirements (W x L x H): approx. 2.00 x 3.80 x 3.0 m Knedpfjkr E Nnsx Aahsf The price is net, plus statutory VAT, ex works, loaded on truck.

Kondisi: baik (bekas), Tahun pembuatan: 1999, CNC vertical machining center CHIRON FZ 22 L type Machining center equipped with SIEMENS 840-D series CNC control Travel distances X: 2600 mm, Y: 520 mm, Z: 630 mm Table size: 2700 x 570 mm Table load capacity: 525 kg (per meter) Knedexqq Tgjpfx Aahof Tool holder: SK 40 (DIN 69871) Drilling capacity: 35 mm Tapping capacity: M27 Tool diameter: 75 mm Diameter with adjacent positions free: 105 mm Tool change time (tool-to-tool): 2.0 sec Distance spindle - table: 190 to 820 mm Max. spindle speed: 10,500 rpm Max. main spindle drive: 18.5 kW Transport dimensions of the basic machine (L x W x H): 4600 x 2470 x 2950 mm Approx. machine weight: 7.5 tons

Kondisi: perlu perbaikan (bekas), Tahun pembuatan: 2009, Fungsionalitas: tidak berfungsi, nomor mesin/kendaraan: 281-06, Caracteristici tehnice: # Zona de prelucrare: X 550 mm; Y 400 mm; Z 360 mm # Descriere axe: 3 AXE LINIARE (X, Y, Z) + 1 ax de masă rotativă A și 2 axe de rotație B cu cap divizor indexabil cu sistem de măsurare directă unghiulară, număr de rotații 50minˉ¹, precizie +/- 5" # Inclinare ax A: +/-110˚ Kodpexxivcefx Aahjnf # Dimensiune maximă piesă/fixare: Ø 247 x 830 mm; greutate max 360 kg # Viteză de avans rapid: X/Y/Z 40/40/40 m/min # Distanță între capete divizoare B1/B2: 250 mm # Turație arbore principal: 1-10.000 rpm # Priză arbore principal: DIN69893-HSK-A63 (cu răcire internă) # Schimbător automat de scule, 1x48 scule / schimb sculă-sculă mediu 2,5 sec # Scule: diametru max. Ø82 mm / lungime max. 250 mm / 5 kg Conexiune electrică: # tensiune: 3x400V/50Hz # Putere instalată: aprox 45 kVA / 80A Dimensiuni: # spațiu instalare: aprox. 4,4 x 2,3 x 3,1 m # greutate: aprox. 8.500 kg Echipamente incluse: # CNC: Siemens 840D Power Line # Extractor de span: Spring Knoll # Sistem de răcire cu ulei # Sistem de filtrare ulei max. 80 bar: Knoll HL 450/1200 # Sistem de răcire ax, ghidaje și dulap electric # 2 sisteme de ungere cu ulei # Sistem de absorbție/recuperare vapori ulei: LTA AC3002 # Sistem antiincendiu: Kraft & Bauer # Detectare prezență piesă P/Y: cu senzori de aer cu presiune joasă # Control în proces: Marposs T25 # Control rupere scule: Blum Novotech # Sistem de detecție sprijin sculă în arborele principal # Documentație: incompletă Starea mașinii: NEFUNCȚIONALĂ # ușă pentru magazie scule # senzor prezență magazie scule (BERU)

Kondisi: sangat baik (bekas), Tahun pembuatan: 2008, Fungsionalitas: berfungsi sepenuhnya, jarak pergerakan sumbu X: 730 mm, jarak lintasan sumbu Y: 400 mm, jarak gerak sumbu Z: 425 mm, gerak cepat sumbu X: 60 m/menit, pergeseran cepat sumbu Y: 60 m/menit, pergerakan cepat sumbu Z: 60 m/menit, torsi: 90 Nm, produsen pengendali: Siemens, model controller: 840D PL, berat keseluruhan: 10.000 kg, kecepatan spindel (maks.): 12.000 rpm, pasokan pendingin: 25 batang, jumlah spindel: 1, jumlah slot dalam magazin alat: 20, Perlengkapan: dokumentasi / manual, kecepatan rotasi dapat diubah tanpa batas, konveyor serpihan, en-1 Knedpfswpcfujx Aahof

Kondisi: bekas, Machine has a fault in the main spindle. CNC Vertical Machining Centre CHIRON Type FZ 22 L high speed Machining centre with CNC control FANUC Series 21-M Serial No. 179-98 Year of manufacture: 1999 Travel distances X: 2000 mm, Y: 520 mm, Z: 630 mm Table size 2700 x 570 mm Table load capacity 525 kg (per meter) Tool holder SK 40 (DIN 69871) Drilling capacity 35 mm Tapping capacity M27 Tool diameter 75 mm Diameter with free adjacent stations 105 mm Tool change time tool-to-tool 2.0 sec. Tool change time chip-to-chip 4.8 sec. Distance spindle nose – table 190 to 820 mm Spindle speed max. 10,500 rpm Main spindle drive max. 18.5 kW Power supply 400 Volt, 50 Hz, 32 kVA - Pendulum machining via 2 work areas (partition wall missing) - CNC control FANUC Series 21-M - 40-position tool changer - Through spindle coolant (IKZ) - Splash guard cabin with sliding door - Indirect path measurement system Kodpoquhbgefx Aahenf - Coolant unit with chip conveyor adjacent - Electronic handwheel Transport dimensions of the basic machine L x W x H 4600 x 2470 x 2950 mm Machine weight approx. 7.5 tons Transport dimensions for the truck L x W x H 12000 x 2470 x 2950 mm Transport weight on the truck approx. 10 tons Weight 7.2 tons Good condition – machine has a fault in the main spindle.

Kondisi: baik (bekas), Tahun pembuatan: 2006, Broche 12000 TR:MN CN SIEMENS SINUMERIK 258-38. Compteur horaire : 85 642 heures Puissance totale machine : 30 KVA Course X : 300 mm, course Y : 400 mm, course Z : 425 mm Vitesse de broche : 12 000 tr/min Vitesse de déplacement : 60 m/min Attachement d’outil : SA40 2 unités disponibles Knedpfxsn D D Nhj Aahof

Kondisi: siap digunakan (bekas), Tahun pembuatan: 2011, Sumbu X: 300mm, sumbu Y: 250mm, sumbu Z: 250mm, kecepatan rapid (X/Y/Z): 40/40/60 m/menit, waktu chip-to-chip: 1,5 detik, ukuran bidang penjepit: 2x 550x300mm, kecepatan spindle maksimum: 15.000/menit, torsi: 23Nm, dudukan alat: HSK-A32, jumlah alat: 12, pengganti alat: Pengganti tipe keranjang CHIRON, kontrol: GE Fanuc Series oi-MC. Inspeksi di lokasi memungkinkan. Knsdow T Su Sjpfx Aahsf

Kondisi: bekas, TECHNICAL DATA - Number of axes: 7 MILLING SPINDLE - Tool holder: HSK40 - Spindle speed: 30,000 [rpm] LINEAR AXES - Travel X/Y/Z axes: 450 x 270 x 310 [mm] - Rapid traverse speed (X/Y/Z): 75 [m/min] SWIVEL AXIS B - Travel: -20/+115 [degrees] Knsdpfx Aouhbtqoahsf - Minimum resolution: 0.001 [degrees] TOOL CHANGER - Tool changer type: Parapluie - Number of tools in magazine: 20 SWIVEL AXIS A - Max. bar diameter: 32 [mm] - Minimum resolution: 0.001 [degrees] - Travel: 360 [degrees] ELECTRICAL SUPPLY - Supply voltage: 400 [V] - Total drive power: 17 [kVA] WEIGHT AND DIMENSIONS - Required floor space: 1,500 x 2,600 [mm] - Machine height: 2,300 [mm] - Machine weight: 5,100 [kg] MACHINE HOURS - Operating hours: 20,749 [hours] ACCESSORIES - Control: Fanuc 31i-A5 - Interfaces: USB, PCMCIA, RJ45 - Fire extinguishing system *: KRAFT&BAUER FB703 * Note: Functionality not guaranteed. To be inspected by a qualified company appointed by the buyer. - Coolant tank - Spindle cooling - Oil mist extraction: HIFI FILTER - Tool measurement probe: Renishaw TS27R - Workpiece measurement probe: Renishaw OMP40 - System for 6th side machining - Collet chuck: ORTLIEB KSF 30-50 - Tool identification via RFID scan: BALLUFF BIS C-650 - Tool holders: 30

Kondisi: perlu perbaikan (bekas), Tahun pembuatan: 2007, Fungsionalitas: tidak berfungsi, nomor mesin/kendaraan: 191-88, Caracteristici tehnice: # Spațiu de prelucrare: X 550 mm; Y 400 mm; Z 360 mm Ksdpfx Aasxw Uplohjnf # Descriere axe: 3 AXE LINIARE (X,Y,Z) + 1 ax de rotație masă A și 2 axe de rotație B cu cap divizor indexabil, cu sistem de măsurare directă unghiular, turație max. 50 minˉ¹, precizie +/- 5" # Rotație ax A: +/-110˚ # Dimensiune maximă piesă prindere/prelucrare: Ø 247 x 830 mm; greutate max. 360 kg # Avans rapid: X/Y/Z 40/40/40 m/min # Distanța între capetele divizoare B1/B2: 250 mm # Turație arbore principal: 1-10.000 rpm # Priză arbore: DIN69893-HSK-A63 (cu răcire internă) # Schimbător automat de scule: 1x48 scule / timp cip-în-cip mediu 2,5 sec # Diametru max. sculă: Ø82 mm / lungime max. 250 mm / 5 kg Conectare electrică: # Tensiune: 3x400V/50Hz # Putere instalată: aprox. 45 kVA / 80A Dimensiuni # Spațiu de instalare: aprox. 4.4 x 2.3 x 3.1 m # Greutate: aprox. 8.500 kg Echipare: # CNC: Siemens 840D Power Line # Extractor span: Spring Knoll # Sistem răcire ulei # Sistem filtrare ulei max. 80 bar: Knoll HL 450/1200 # Sistem răcire ax/ghidaje și tablou electric # 2 sisteme de ungere ulei # Sistem absorbție/recuperare vapori ulei: LTA AC3002 # Sistem antiincendiu: Kraft&Bauer # Verificare prezență piesă (P/Y): senzori aer presiune joasă # Control proces: Marposs T25 # Sistem detecție prezență portsculă în arborele principal # Documentație: incompletă Stare utilaj: NEFUNCȚIONAL # Ecran protecție operator spart – panoul de comandă funcțional # Lanț magazie scule # Ballbar X # Ballbar Y # Sistem prindere sculă arbore principal # Sursă alimentare driver X # Sursă alimentare driver Y # Sursă alimentare generala drivere # Unitate hidraulică complet defectă

Kondisi: sangat baik (bekas), Tahun pembuatan: 2011, Siemens 840 D, 40 tool stations, HSK 40, A-axis, direct measuring systems, hydraulics, ICS 70 bar, high-discharge chip conveyor, paper band filter, central lubrication system, workpiece support control, tool breakage monitoring, tool life monitoring, fully integrated 6-axis robot with double gripper, integrated palletizing system, mineral casting bed, control cabinet cooler. Everything from a single source: Transport, installation, and commissioning can also be offered as an additional service. Kjdpfx Aajvxrzxohonf

Kondisi: baik (bekas), Tahun pembuatan: 2009, For sale is a Chiron FZ 08W Magnum High Speed, a high-speed vertical CNC machining center, year of manufacture 2009, equipped with Siemens 840D control. The machine is located in Armilla, Spain and is in excellent working condition – ideal for high-precision machining and series production. Main features: Brand / Model: Chiron FZ 08W Magnum High Speed Year of manufacture: 2009 CNC Control: Siemens 840D (PCU 50 / NCU 572.5, 6 axes, 1 channel) Travel paths: X-axis: 450 mm Y-axis: 270 mm Z-axis: 310 mm Spindle speed: up to 15,000 rpm Tool holder: HSK-A 40 DIN 69893 Spindle power: 7.2 kW (25% DC) / 2.2 kW (100% DC) Tool magazine: 24 positions with automatic tool changer Tool change time (chip-to-chip): approx. 1.9 s Cooling system: Internal high-pressure coolant (up to 150 bar) High-pressure pump with double-switchable 60 µm filter Coolant filtration system: Automatic endless paper filter (50 µm) 500-liter coolant tank Chip conveyor: Chain conveyor with 100-liter chip container Automatic loading doors Table size: 2x660x350 mm Maximum table load: 100 kg per side Rapid traverse speed: up to 75 m/min (X, Y, Z) Acceleration: Knodev R Hliopfx Aahjf X-axis: 1 g Y-axis: 1.5 g Z-axis: 2 g Additional equipment: High-speed package (higher acceleration and faster tool change) Work area shuttle system 0/180° with partition 3D probe Renishaw TS 27R 3-color signal light on the safety enclosure 230V socket at the operator panel Connection for portable handwheel (“mini handwheel”) at operating panel Integrated electrical cabinet cooling Additional spare parts included: Additionally, a spare parts package from an identical Chiron FZ 08W is included, making maintenance and repairs easier. The package includes: Complete Peiseler table (180°) Complete tool change system with motor Spindle head (without motor) Operator panel keypads Doors Various electrical components Power supply for servo amplifiers 2 servo amplifiers Chip conveyor 2 spare motors Condition & Delivery: Machine fully functional and ready for operation. Inspection and test run possible at our workshop. Regular maintenance carried out. Video of the machine in operation available upon request. Location & Shipping: Location: Armilla, Spain Shipping and commissioning can be organized on request. For further information please contact us by phone or email. We are available for all questions and technical details.

Kondisi: baik (bekas), Tahun pembuatan: 2001, kecepatan spindel (maks.): 12.000 rpm, jarak lintasan sumbu Y: 400 mm, gerak cepat sumbu X: 300 m/menit, pergerakan cepat sumbu Z: 425 m/menit, Chiron bearbejdningscenter type FZ 15 W High Speed med spåntransportør, årgang 2001, med vendebord, 12.000 omdr./min. og indvendig køling. Vandringer: X 300 mm, Y 400 mm, Z 425 mm. Knodpfx Ajvtca Usahof Der findes 2 stk. Flere billeder kan fremsendes på forespørgsel.

Kondisi: siap digunakan (bekas), Tahun pembuatan: 2005, A machining center is available. Travel distances X/Y/Z: 550mm/400mm/425mm, A-axis: +/-100°, rapid traverse: 40m/min, spindle speed: 10,500 rpm, tool changer positions: 20, tool holder: SK40, table load capacity: 300kg, control system: Siemens Sinumerik. The machine's screen is defective. Documentation is available. An on-site inspection is possible. Ksdpfx Aewxfa Hoahjnf

Kondisi: bekas, TECHNICAL DATA Knedpfx Ajuhbr Tsahjf - Number of axes: 7 MILLING SPINDLE - Tool holder: HSK40 - Spindle speed: 30,000 rpm LINEAR AXES - Travel X/Y/Z axes: 450/270/310 mm - Rapid traverse speed (X/Y/Z): 75 m/min SWIVEL AXIS B - Travel: -20/+90 degrees - Minimum resolution: 0.001 degrees TOOL CHANGER - Tool changer type: Parapluie (umbrella-type) - Number of tools in magazine: 40 TURNING SPINDLE - Spindle speed: 8,000 rpm - Max. bar diameter: 32 mm - Minimum resolution C-axis: 0.001 degrees - Travel: 360 degrees ELECTRICAL SUPPLY - Supply voltage: 400 V WEIGHT AND DIMENSIONS - Footprint: 1,500 x 2,600 mm - Machine height: 2,300 mm - Machine weight: 2,850 kg MACHINE HOURS ACCESSORIES - Control: Siemens 840 D - 3-color status light

Kondisi: baik (bekas), Tahun pembuatan: 2003, Fungsionalitas: berfungsi sepenuhnya, nomor mesin/kendaraan: 129-41, jarak pergerakan sumbu X: 550 mm, jarak lintasan sumbu Y: 400 mm, jarak gerak sumbu Z: 360 mm, produsen pengendali: Siemens, model controller: 840D, lebar meja: 260 mm, tinggi meja: 540 mm, jumlah slot dalam magazin alat: 48, Perlengkapan: konveyor serpihan, - Spindle 12,000 rpm - 48 tool stations in chain magazine (chain and guides replaced in 2021) - Tool holder HSK A63 Knodpfxstyx Npe Aahjf

Tahun pembuatan: 1988, Kondisi: siap digunakan (bekas), Travel X/Y/Z: approx. 1600mm/400mm/425mm, table dimensions X/Y: 1500mm/400mm, tool holder: SK40, tool stations: 20, spindle speed: 5000 rpm, machine dimensions X/Y/Z: approx. 4000mm/2500mm/2900mm, weight: approx. 7000kg, control: Siemens Sinumerik System 3, operating hours: approx. 19,855h. Includes approx. 12 tool holders. Documentation available. On-site inspection possible. Knodpfswaa Injx Aahjf

Kondisi: bekas, Tahun pembuatan: 2015, x-axis 1250 mm y-axis 840 mm z-axis 550 mm Control Siemens 840D Main spindle speed range 12,000 rpm Main spindle drive power 22.5 kW Max. torque 140 Nm Number of tools 24 pcs Max. tool length 320 mm Spindle taper HSK 63 Operating hours 56,000 h Spindle hours 17,500 h Machine weight approx. 9.7 t This machine can be inspected under power by appointment and, in our assessment, is in very good condition. Equipment: - Internal coolant supply (IKZ) - Chip conveyor - Glass scales in all axes - Automatic door - Swivel axis with counter bearing, manufacturer: Fibro Four identical machines available. Kedpfjx I Sh Ajx Aahenf The machines were used for light die-sinking and drilling operations. Subject to technical changes, errors and prior sale!

Kondisi: bekas, Tahun pembuatan: 2001, x-perjalanan 305 mm y-perjalanan 610 mm Kjdpfswth Snsx Aahonf z-perjalanan 100 mm Kontrol Fanuc 21-M Kecepatan spindle 12.000 rpm Holder alat SK 40 Jumlah posisi alat 12 Menurut penilaian kami, mesin ini dalam kondisi bekas yang baik dan dapat diperiksa dalam keadaan terhubung listrik dengan perjanjian terlebih dahulu. Aksesori, alat dan perangkat penjepit yang ditampilkan hanya termasuk dalam pengiriman jika disebutkan dalam informasi tambahan. Perubahan dan kesalahan dalam data teknis dan informasi, serta penjualan sela, dapat terjadi!